I was really hoping that the standards of the debate were going to rise but, oh well, what can you expect from an ignorant couch potato republican and an Iraqi war veteran: Propaganda!

To Najjar,

You really should back up your statements with facts and refrain from trying to make your tour of Iraq as an act of heroism. It isn’t. You are working for a professionally paid army which is almost synonymous with Black Water. You are in an army that has illegally invaded another nation, destroyed infrastructure, killed tens of thousands of innocent civilians and is indirectly responsible for the death of the hundreds of thousands killed in this civil war unleashed through your army´s actions. Here are a couple of links to conservative estimates:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War

iraqbodycount.org/

So if you really want to be cowboy, be in the army when they decide to invade North Korea, China or even Iran. Although I don´t believe they – the generals or administration – will because that takes a lot of guts and the aforementioned nations have armies, weapons and without a doubt will use them. The Pentagon knows this and prefers a diplomatic solution. It´s better to kill those who can´t defend themselves like what your newly adopted brethren are doing in Gaza against my Palestinian brothers and sisters.

To Mark,
You really have a very narrow vision of the world. You have no idea of the consequences of your government’s actions. You don’t see the death or destruction caused. And from what I see from your pathetic postings, you probably care less. You insist on defending this concept of America and country which really doesn’t materialize into anything. The young men and women, people in their early twenties with a whole life in front of them, are sent with the purpose of supporting an economic agenda. To not recognize this is to live in denial.

hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2017/stories/20030829008112900.htm

Of course, the American people, the normal everyday guy or gal on the street, aren’t – nor will they – benefit at all from this adventure. The rate of unemployment continues to rise, people are losing more homes thus being left out in the streets and small businesses, companies and corporations are continuing to close. So when you say to Najjar he is serving his country in reality that is a gross lie. He is serving the multinational establishment that is behind this war. But if, God forbid, he would have lost an eye or a leg or even his life, what would that have got him? Just that: a lost limb or life. Why don’t you ask mothers of dead soldiers like Cindy Sheehan et al what they feel.

nytimes.com/2005/09/19/politics/19sheehan.html?_r=1

or

thewe.cc/weplanet/news/americas/us/us_veteran_mother_against_the_war.htm

By the way, calling them leftists, Mr. Najjar, doesn’t make you right. Nor does it make you a better American. There … I will let my Arab brethren take a shot at you.

To Chaban,
I want to thank you for this forum and giving everyone an opportunity to express their view.

التحية الطيبة واقبل أخلص تمنياتي بالتوفيق
المترجم الإيطالي

Shoe thrower Muntazer al-Zaidi – to most was a brave thing to do I agreed in that notion, but that is not the way in 21st Century to solve, to compromise, to give a valid concrete answer to a problem……yes…he was able to embarrassed a man of another country, but he only makes himself a brutal, horrible low human being, this is my opinion and must be respected no matter what…..sorry but I don’t agree.

sincerely,

Manolo

Thanks for the kind words, sir. You can imagine how they have been received. I’m not a regular on that board, and I guess I was just indignant over the event and was trolling around looking for a fight that day. I love when quasi-intellectuals try to flex their brains in attempts to “educate this ignorant American” on how things really are.

I admire your position as well and I’m truly grateful for your service there. I’m sure it is challenging at times with your name and your heritage. I’m sure you deal with prejudice on both sides, but we both know morons will always live amongst us. The important thing is that YOU know you are a patriot and what it means to be an American and serve your country.

Take care,
Mark

Good post (#24). I have to put up with a lot of the Liberal Left’s misinterpretation of world events too. It’s especially hard for me because of my Lebanese-American background. Everybody thinks there is some “grab the oil” conspiracy going on and that everybody in Iraq hates us. I was there in 2006/07 and I can say with authority that President Bush is well respected among those Iraqis that I talked to. Granted, they’re not in love with him, but they highly respect him because he did what he said he’d do. Bush got rid of Saddam Hussein who was hard on everybody, even his own Sunni tribesmen. He mauled al-Qaeda and threw them out of Iraq and the Middle East. And finally, he brokered agreements with enough leaders on all sides to avert a civil war. The Lefties are really mad because it was all accomplished on Bush’s watch. Now, if anything goes south, it will be Obama’s fault.
I’m just passing through because I usually hit the news commentaries. Keep telling the truth and don’t let these historical revisionists pull you down because you’re doing great. Maybe I’ll stop by from time to time.

Some of his other colleagues say that Montazer Al Zaidi hates U.S. troops because they caused the death of two of his brothers who belonged to the Al Mahdi Army, loyal to radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al Sadr and who has faced fierce fighting in the Iraqi army and the U.S.

Well, that’s too bad for his two brothers. They tried to take on more than they could and paid the price for their troubles.

Obviously, Shoeless al-Zaidi doesn’t have the heart of his brothers or he would have fought with more than his shoes. In America, a common shoe thrower would be called a punk. At least he has no respect among Arab-Americans.

R. Najjar, American Veteran
Operation Iraqi Freedom
USA

What a racist comment you just made. Don’t look now, but your hipocracy is showing…

1) Do not equate my use of the adjective “civilized” with the noun “civilization”. If you need me to explain the difference to you, just let me know. I’ll do my best, but I’m not a miracle worker. You’re obviously a little less intelligent than the people I’m used to speaking with.

Actions speak louder than words and again you attempt to deflect attention from the irrefutable fact that Iraqis kidnapped, tortured, murdered, mutilated (often on videotape) other Iraqis in the name of sectarianism–and that far more civilians have died at the hands of other civilians than at the hands of military forces. The Iraqi culture may indeed be full of sincere, honest, hard-working, family-loving, brave and clean individuals, but there are far too many people that clearly don’t think beyond the rantings of zealots and are all too willing to eliminate their countryman’s life in the name of a religious sect. That’s not really acting all that civil regardless of how cleanly a person may be, now is it?

2)Are you seriously trying to assert that Americans, Britians and Isrealis got together to conspire a way to destroy Iraq; and that somehow they were able to introduce the concept of sectarianism to Muslims whereby it received immediate widespread acceptance once Saddam was out of the picture? Do you ever read what you write before you send it? That is the most ludicrous statement I think I’ve ever read.

Saddam was a sociopath at best, and a psychopath in all probability. He surrounded himself with those who were like minded or most supportive, or the least threatening. Hitler was the same way. Saddam himself grew up in the Baath party as a hit man. He was a sadistic assassin with a flair for creative torture. He was ruthless, amoral, ambitious and merciless. Story has it that he killed his first victim (at his uncle’s prompting) when he was still a boy. Those who benefited from Saddam’s favor were no doubt expected to repay the kindness twenty-fold. The stability that Iraq “enjoyed” under his rule was due to the Iraqi people’s complete understanding that to waiver even slightly from Saddam’s will would mean death for yourself and your extended family. That level of oppression certainly would keep a society well-behaved. Maybe you would enjoy that type of Utopian culture, but I think I’d rather pass on that one.

All this leads us back to the original topic of discussion and that is that Muntazer al-Zaidi should actually thank George Bush for the freedom he had to even throw those shoes. If that would have been Saddam at the podium, Muntazer al-Zaidi probably would have never done it. Even if he was stupid enough to do it, he and his entire family would have no doubt been killed in a heinous manner–not that you would have ever heard about the incident in the first place.

In our entire conversation so far, I never once asserted that sectarianism and sectarian violence occurred during Saddam’s regime. This is your attempt to put words in my mouth that just weren’t there. He did what pleased him to whomever he wished. I assert that the sectarianism was there all along and that it was made to smolder deep and hot by the favoritism Saddam gave to the Sunnis. It simply exploded into atrocious violence once he was out of the picture and is being perpetrated by a section of the population that does not deserve the freedoms democracy gives them. They kill or die not for a noble cause, but for the opinions of radical clerics who so easily incite them into an emotional frenzy–a bloodthirsty mob. This can really only happen amongst the small-minded of the world. Say what you will, but exept for the most isolated of instances, there is nothing that remotely resembles death squads roaming the streets of America, or Europe, or Australia, Japan, etc.

Every country has it’s own issues. I certainly have much to say on those same topics. I’m just as certain there are a great many innocent people there just wanting to get on with their life, but until they rise up and put a stop to the violence themselves, they will continue to be hostages regardless of whether it is the US military, or the Maadi Army patroling the streets.

One thing that I can honestly say I agree wholeheartedly with Muslims on: the most beautiful thing in the world is a new martyr.

I’d love to battle with you more, but in all honesty, you pretty much bore me. I have much better things I can do with my time, like clean my gun collection while I watch ultra-violent television shows, or maybe I could teach my son the proper way to disparage a person of color. Just to clarify so that there are no misunderstandings between us, that last sentence is called “sarcasm”, which is a literary weapon of the intelligent–so clearly, you won’t understand.

What ever you brains dictates, your emotions convey.

‘ Lets do the right thing, only’

Only few do it that way.

Sincerly,

Manolo Jimenez Jr.

I could not have said it better!

shokran haha!!!

May Allah help Montadhar, is there any support group or anything like that?

Let’s get a couple of things established:

1)These people had civilization when your ancestors were climbing trees. Their social manners are far above anything you have seen in the US where many social concepts such as family (such as marriage or raising of children) , honesty and sincerity in transactions or individual ones like bravery, decency and cleanliness in the US practically don’t exist. So there goes the thesis of backwardness and barbaric down the toilet with the rest of your discourse.

2) Most of the Iraqis I knew were Shiites and Kurds who were getting generous doctorate scholarships under the regime of Saddam Hussein. The numbers decreased with the implementation of the first embargo starting in 1991 but they were still there. Like all dictatorships, if you spoke out against the regime you got punished. It didn’t matter what you were: Sunni, Shiite, Kurdish, Turkimani, Christian, etc. If you kept your mouth shut then you benefited or were, at least, left alone. What didn’t exist – that is until the Americans and their British and Israeli teachers started started trying to figure out ways to destroy the country – was sectarianism. (An observation: Did Saddam have Tikritis around him? Yes, but not because they were Sunnis. It was because they were his family. If you are running a small business, a huge company or a government, the people you will most likely trust are people whose blood also runs in your veins. However, it should be noted, that the previous president of Iraq Ahmed Hassan al-Bakr although also Tikriti was not immediate family and was discreetly overthrown by Saddam.)

Returning to the topic of sectarianism, Saddam didn’t really judge his collaborators according to their ethnicity or religion. Taha Yassin Ramadan, the Iraqi vice president, was a Kurd of the Shiite sect. Tarik Aziz was – and still is – Christian while Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf is a Shiite. Again, your clumsy writing is only surpassed by your astounding ignorance.

Finally, the only way things are going to finally get under control there is when another strong man who understands politics moves in and the US soldiers – and their precious American blood – move on to new killing grounds leaving Iraq once and for all. The violence will slowly but surely decrease and Iraqis will begin to live again like the human beings they are. Now, if we analyze the violence in Iraq we can only justify its existence as the result of the occupation. But let’s take a look at the US. Just google Violence in the US, Murder in the US, Gun Violence or even Homicide and one gets goose pimples. What’s even worse: industry commercializes on violence and the subtle teaching of it through films, video games, etc. So please don’t give us a lecture on model behavior. Take those soldiers and their blackwater cousins and clean up your own house.